Hi everyone, this is the first thread for the Vi DAC. Please post thoughts, comments, questions, screenshots, etc. in here. We will be attending to these forums now instead of the IGG pages due to ease of use for both LHL and backers.
Same rules as before: professional-esque discussion over the campaign and LHL is welcome. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be deleted. Profanity: try to keep it PG, please.
There is no "quote" function on the forum but I am working with Freshdesk support to see if there is a workaround. But this will be infinitely better than the old system at IGG where there was no ability to edit posts, a character count, no way to post screens, etc.
We look forward to hearing from you around the forums!
I posted this 2 months ago but it apparently didn't go through so I am posting again...
I think that is going to be hard to do Robert. Consider the following taken directly off Indiegogo:
Campaign Backers when campaign closed % Funded
Geek Wave: ~9600 $1,665,254 3478% on July 13, 2014
Geek Wave #2: ~800 $190,000 148% of $128,000
Geek Pulse DAC: ~13,400 $3,001,353 3089% on Dec 28, 2013
Geek Pulse #2: ~550 $103,527 20705% of $500 fixed goal
Pulse Analog: ~260 $93,966 1649% on Oct 1, 2015
Vi DAC: ~1150 $283,406 2852% on March 16, 2015
Total Reported funds contributed: $5,629,225
These numbers may not reflect all of the perks, direct invoices, etc. which may have taken place after the campaigns closed. Even with overlap, that’s 20,000+ backers from all over the world. I have a hard time believing that ~20k backers contributing ~5.6M are going to let all this just go.
I agree with you about these products becoming “legacy”. I am fortunate in that I have the ability to move on (and I have, substituting new products which I have purchased to take the place of these “potential products” which may or may not ever show up). But while you and I may be able to tap out and take the loss as a poor investment opportunity, hard to imagine that many others will feel the same…again, nor should they.
I think if the communication were better and consisted of something other than teases like the September 5, 2018 update (noted above by John Siegel):
“We have the new Vi chassis design ready…we will post the photo of the new chassis once we receive it. It should be in three weeks.”
Promise unkept. Rather than update again on Sept 26 letting people know what’s happening, nothing happens.
In the last year regarding just Vi DAC, there have been 7 updates, and many updates address the chassis or Mr. Ho’s world travels. All tease, no meat, irregularly irregular positive reinforcement (the most addictive kind, just like gambling). When you click on the campaign Facebook links for Mr. Ho, you get https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/660315531/ which no longer exists. Same for https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/110875392609110/ . There is a twitter (https://twitter.com/geekbylhlabs) who’s last meaningful post was from Feb of 2017. Talk about a ruined reputation.
(note: extra part deleted for encouragement of harassment towards journalists and LHL employees and associates)
(second note: second deletion. discussion of legal action towards LHL is not permitted on this site)
From what I understand from Dan's post is that Indiegogo would take "punitive actions" which does not mean much really.
My best guest is restrinction use of Indiegogo's crowdfunding plateform, nothing that can help US backers or speed up LHL.
Besides I do not think LHL will try crowdfunding ever again. It worked amazingly well with the GO series which build definition was simple compared to the Pulse than Vi and others promised products. Which reminds me of the amps, I wonder how these ended up?
IMO, and again, the various options were a true excitment but made the all thing much too complicated and not efficient enough business wise.
My conclusion in this is, we are stuck. Complaining to Indiegogo won't help, legal actions ? Well I don't know. Being in Europe makes my case a lose in all circumstances I guess.
I am very disapointed but I try to be pragmatical because I think the only worth thing to do is to wait and hope for a delivery.
I am annoyed though because I put on hold my main system evolution because of the Vi and Source. With the money I could have gone for what I think is the best solution for me right now: a decent PC with tweaked hardware for Hifi and JRiver. A good DAC which there is plenty to choose below $3000 and I am golden. Won't happen before I know for sure what ends up with LHL. I even find a DAP which could do all I need and would take over the Wave hands up. I did not buy it because of the Wave.
I own several GO and they are great products, I am sure the whole LHL line up would (is?) be too.
Jarek, who I thank for his involment in all this, tries his best (I am sure of that). He is in the worst place in this, "do not kill the messenger" but he is in the front line.
I am not even sure he is getting anything good out of it.
Larry and Gavin made mistakes which bring us here today. But they also did great together before gone awol.
I personaly don't care about little chassis imperfections, I would also agree on loosing the tube and CCX module I ordered. A compensation swapping to a solid state SE and maybe a good LHL USB cable and a Revive and I would be OK with. Same with Source and Wave, get me in the most easy to build batch, or the first to go and lets end this a way or another. I am open to any solution that could simplify the build then the shipping process.
Sadly, I already suggested that, Jarek noted and said he would report to Larry ... no response about that suggestion so far.
Just a silly idea: send me a Da Vinci instead of my remaining perks and we can call it even.
I won't even mind the color!
I may have something this weekend, but don't hold breath until guaranteed update.
@Jeff thank you for the very nice words. They mean a lot to me.
Jarek, in my business I end up between the customers and the subcontractors.
I know how hard it is to be in the middle of a tense situation in which you cannot take any of the decisions.
Jarek, I think that most of us realize that you are doing your best under difficult circumstances and very much appreciate your efforts.
I tend to agree with Adrian.
As far as we know when there is an "acceptable" defect.
Also I do not like much the new chassis design. But again, I would agree with any solution that can help speeding things up.
Not to mention that the new chassis won't be ready before march ?
First off, thanks Jarek for getting the update information for us - was a bit of an anxious time not knowing what was going on.
I can live with the idea that the Pulse analog components are at the back of the list but the new chassis design does look a bit plain to my eyes. I'm hoping things will look better when an actual photograph surfaces. The writing in the top surface, if that is what it is, looks a bit tacky in this rendition. Not sure about the red bars on the side either.
I do hope that the new machined chassis has walls that are stiff enough (reinforcing ribs? internal structure?) that resonance will not be an issue. This was one of Larry's key criteria for evaluating a replacement (also must use the same boards and be easier to make). Frankly, it does not look to have enough ventilation for the tubes. Could be I'm worrying about nothing, but historically heat has been a problem with various projects.
A company should produce products that it is proud of - and I can see that QC is a major issue for the original chassis. Still isn't it a waste to send chassis with scratches and silkscreen defects to the scrap bin? Why not offer them to us as seconds maybe with a little something to sweeten the deal? I would be open to such an offer.
Best of luck with the vendor search.
@Conrad I brought that up to Larry a couple of months ago, regarding the "B" stock with defects. It will probably become a reality at some point, but I don't know when. Larry was open to the idea. If we get enough people who want defected chassis, maybe we can save those chassis for those backers who want their gear NOW.
Honestly if the defect is not a big deal then YES !
@Jeff I'm exploring that with Larry right now, that option. The issue is that we can't guarantee how bad or how good it would look. What may be "not a big deal" to you may be "a big deal" to someone else. So maybe we can just say, "If you want a defected chassis, you can have it, but we cannot guarantee how good or how bad it would look."
But, again, I don't know how Larry will go for that or how backers would go for it.
@Jarek you are right.
Maybe it is possible to get pictures of the defects and ask backers if they agree?
Maybe all defective chassis vould find an owner?
Let backers sign an agreement related to the agreed defective chassis list.
I for my part, would be OK with a defect I am aware off and agreed on PLUS swap to a SS SE instead of the tube and CCX8.
Again, my point of view is to help getting things done the easiest way.
Loosing the customisation we backed is a shame, it was an awesome idea, but it makes things to complicated.
IMO, lets go for something more simple ... if it helps getting things done faster of course.