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Vi DAC Chatter

Hi everyone, this is the first thread for the Vi DAC. Please post thoughts, comments, questions, screenshots, etc. in here. We will be attending to these forums now instead of the IGG pages due to ease of use for both LHL and backers. 


Same rules as before: professional-esque discussion over the campaign and LHL is welcome. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be deleted. Profanity: try to keep it PG, please. 


There is no "quote" function on the forum but I am working with Freshdesk support to see if there is a workaround. But this will be infinitely better than the old system at IGG where there was no ability to edit posts, a character count, no way to post screens, etc. 


We look forward to hearing from you around the forums! 


- Jarek


Best Answer

I posted this 2 months ago but it apparently didn't go through so I am posting again...


I think that is going to be hard to do Robert. Consider the following taken directly off Indiegogo:

 

                                                                        Funds collected

Campaign                         Backers               when campaign closed                 % Funded

 

Geek Wave:                     ~9600                  $1,665,254                                     3478% on July 13, 2014

Geek Wave #2:                ~800                    $190,000                                         148% of $128,000

Geek Pulse DAC:             ~13,400              $3,001,353                                     3089% on Dec 28, 2013

Geek Pulse #2:                 ~550                    $103,527                                         20705% of $500 fixed goal

Pulse Analog:                   ~260                    $93,966                                           1649% on Oct 1, 2015

Vi DAC:                              ~1150                  $283,406                                        2852% on March 16, 2015

 

Total Reported funds contributed: $5,629,225

 

These numbers may not reflect all of the perks, direct invoices, etc. which may have taken place after the campaigns closed. Even with overlap, that’s 20,000+ backers from all over the world. I have a hard time believing that ~20k backers contributing ~5.6M are going to let all this just go. 

 

I agree with you about these products becoming “legacy”. I am fortunate in that I have the ability to move on (and I have, substituting new products which I have purchased to take the place of these “potential products” which may or may not ever show up). But while you and I may be able to tap out and take the loss as a poor investment opportunity, hard to imagine that many others will feel the same…again, nor should they.

 

I think if the communication were better and consisted of something other than teases like the September 5, 2018 update (noted above by John Siegel):

 

“We have the new Vi chassis design ready…we will post the photo of the new chassis once we receive it. It should be in three weeks.”

 

Promise unkept. Rather than update again on Sept 26 letting people know what’s happening, nothing happens.

 

In the last year regarding just Vi DAC, there have been 7 updates, and many updates address the chassis or Mr. Ho’s world travels. All tease, no meat, irregularly irregular positive reinforcement (the most addictive kind, just like gambling). When you click on the campaign Facebook links for Mr. Ho, you get https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/660315531/ which no longer exists. Same for https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/110875392609110/ . There is a twitter (https://twitter.com/geekbylhlabs) who’s last meaningful post was from Feb of 2017. Talk about a ruined reputation. 


(note: extra part deleted for encouragement of harassment towards journalists and LHL employees and associates)

(second note: second deletion. discussion of legal action towards LHL is not permitted on this site)


Totally agree with Dan.  please full refund to all backers ASAP.

It is because:

1. no timeline for all products delivery;

2. the Vi Tube dac still have some problems until now, Larry still can not fix it, even you received the Vi Dac, it can not work properly;

3. no CCX production and no timeline for delivery

4. the CS is rubbish, can not answer the questions;

5. wasting our time and money for the undeliverable products.


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I do understand refund will never happen.

Instead could it be possible to change our orders to another version of the products we ordered (Vi DAC for eg) to make it more simple to LHL factory and logistics?

So we can get delivery.


I realize that the Vi series, Source and Wave got too complex, with too many options, too many variations. The idea of the CCX, clock options ... where fantastic on paper, but too complicated to make it happen. It is like getting a standard unit and get it tweaked on order but still in an industrial procces. Brilliant idea, but IMO not faisable business wise.


I would not mind downsize my Vi DAC tube for SS Infinity or SE and forget the CCX.

As far as the down price is close enough to my cumulated opions.

Same with my Source and Wave, aiming at versions that can be delivered ASAP even if that means some spec changes.


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I also understand Jarek is not in an easy situation.

I thank him for the work he is providing so far. I think he si doing his best, like Gina and Manny did at the time, even though we could not get strait answers. What can they do if there is no such things as great news.


What I'd like now is solutions to help getting the orders and get over with the bad feelings.

Ultimately I do not believe in disversonary tactics. In what aim? Appart from toynig with our patience? It makes no sense.

I think what you have suggested is a excellent idea.


It depends on what LH Labs has committed in terms of parts (circuit boards etc)

whether a change is possible. And if they are really planning to fulfill the orders eventually.

Maybe Jarek could propose this solution to Larry and if agreed issu a survey.

If there is enough people in then maybe this could end a good way.

Yes some sort of solution would be great. One thing a dac chassis that had some machinery flaws in it would not worrie me if I was sent photos of it first. Second it was hard for the machine shop to drill two holes, (really) Jarek ask Larry for some options to put forward to us some options to solve this please.

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@all thank you for the suggestions. I will forward these to Larry immediately as soon as I post this. I'll post back if I hear anything. 

Hi all, I'm coming back here after waiting on the IGG forum for an update and trying to catch up.

  

1.  Are there problems with the ViDAC tube production?  

2.  Any news to share on the new chassis option mentioned in the Nov. update? 


Personally if the tube ViDAC has hit a brick wall, then I'd be open working a deal to get the SS version downgrade (or maybe a loaner until the tube version is ready?)

Same with the chassis - it the reject rates are holding things up, then I'm open to a switch to an alternative functional design.


Hopefully we can compromise a little here to get what we all want - enjoying the ViDAC in our systems. 


Surveys seem to take a while to get the bugs worked out - maybe everyone should send an E-mail (or comment here in the forum)?



I would very much like to know the status of my Vi DAC SE Tube order.  I am #6 on the Google Docs list but have yet to hear anything about my DAC.  According to the chatter on this forum, 24 of them have been delivered.  So, where is mine?  This is beyond ridiculous!

Man this is depressing.  I looked at all the money I spent on the various campaigns and I am now realizing I would have almost had enough for a PS Audio DirectStream DAC.  


I have literally been delaying my stereo system creation in anticipation of these DACs.  Is there any news on when the ViDAC will be released?    

Yup, agreed.  I would love to move on and buy a better music server and a better DAC but I've been delaying those moves because I've already invested a fair chunk of money in the Source and the Vi DAC.  They also owe me an LPS4 to go with one of my two Pulse DACs.  I'm almost at the point where I'm going to write it all off as a loss and just move on.  This has completely soured me on any future crowd-funding projects.  They're like gambling; never put in any more than you're prepared to lose.

To LH Labs credit, though, they recently did a quick service turnaround on my Pulse DAC SE so kudos to them for that.

The real problem is that they grew too fast and promised way more than they could deliver.  I think that Larry is very well intentioned but doesn't know how to say no or how to manage rapid growth in his company.  He's always been very nice and helpful in any communication that I've had with him. 

This debacle of the past four years or so has severely damaged the reputation of LH Labs and they will need to do a lot to repair their reputation.  The best way would be to start delivering the product in a timely manner.  I think that they are operating on a shoestring budget and that the campaign money is drying up.  Perhaps they need to attract an investor?  

Well it's difficult to know what to say anymore.  Year after year goes by and I still wait "mostly" patiently.  I have to be thankful that LH Labs has somehow continued to trade despite seemingly being incapable of delivering products. 


I only have one question really.  From reading "Vi DAC Q&A #1" here:  https://support.lhlabs.com/support/solutions/articles/13000038065-vi-dac-q-a-1


How is it even possible to find a company that is so slow they can only CNC mill 15 units per month?  I can't comprehend such slow production rates.  Seriously though @Jarek, please explain how such a slow production rate is possible or viable?


So with at least 150 units to go at 15 units per month, and adding the continuous delays, will I even get my Vi DAC Tube this decade??? 


 


1 person likes this
Jarek 24 days ago you sent info on ideas about vidac from the backers to Larry. Does he care to have some answers or feed back? I for one don’t enjoy his ignoring of the backers. Some comments please?

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Hi everyone,
Let´s face the fact:We have to write off our money we have spend LH.
Although being a crowdfunding, which by it´s nature, is coming w/o a warranty that you will get at the end something, it is a shame in which way we as the backers are treated by LH, respectively Larry.
LH collected a lot of money, also with the help of the Gavin, who was realy good in heating up the campain.
I paid for 2 VI Tube SE and it´s a pity to watch, that they are not taking care about their job and their obligations!
Every company can be faced problems creating delays, but it´s the way how LH & Larry are managing, or better not managing this.
After waiting for 4 years I am done with LH - even if they will send the items in the future, what I am not expecting.
Tesla is just more important for LH than the community of the backers!

 

Backers were past tense but Tesla is future tense....that’s why we are very low In priority
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