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Vi DAC Chatter

Hi everyone, this is the first thread for the Vi DAC. Please post thoughts, comments, questions, screenshots, etc. in here. We will be attending to these forums now instead of the IGG pages due to ease of use for both LHL and backers. 


Same rules as before: professional-esque discussion over the campaign and LHL is welcome. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be deleted. Profanity: try to keep it PG, please. 


There is no "quote" function on the forum but I am working with Freshdesk support to see if there is a workaround. But this will be infinitely better than the old system at IGG where there was no ability to edit posts, a character count, no way to post screens, etc. 


We look forward to hearing from you around the forums! 


- Jarek


Best Answer

I posted this 2 months ago but it apparently didn't go through so I am posting again...


I think that is going to be hard to do Robert. Consider the following taken directly off Indiegogo:

 

                                                                        Funds collected

Campaign                         Backers               when campaign closed                 % Funded

 

Geek Wave:                     ~9600                  $1,665,254                                     3478% on July 13, 2014

Geek Wave #2:                ~800                    $190,000                                         148% of $128,000

Geek Pulse DAC:             ~13,400              $3,001,353                                     3089% on Dec 28, 2013

Geek Pulse #2:                 ~550                    $103,527                                         20705% of $500 fixed goal

Pulse Analog:                   ~260                    $93,966                                           1649% on Oct 1, 2015

Vi DAC:                              ~1150                  $283,406                                        2852% on March 16, 2015

 

Total Reported funds contributed: $5,629,225

 

These numbers may not reflect all of the perks, direct invoices, etc. which may have taken place after the campaigns closed. Even with overlap, that’s 20,000+ backers from all over the world. I have a hard time believing that ~20k backers contributing ~5.6M are going to let all this just go. 

 

I agree with you about these products becoming “legacy”. I am fortunate in that I have the ability to move on (and I have, substituting new products which I have purchased to take the place of these “potential products” which may or may not ever show up). But while you and I may be able to tap out and take the loss as a poor investment opportunity, hard to imagine that many others will feel the same…again, nor should they.

 

I think if the communication were better and consisted of something other than teases like the September 5, 2018 update (noted above by John Siegel):

 

“We have the new Vi chassis design ready…we will post the photo of the new chassis once we receive it. It should be in three weeks.”

 

Promise unkept. Rather than update again on Sept 26 letting people know what’s happening, nothing happens.

 

In the last year regarding just Vi DAC, there have been 7 updates, and many updates address the chassis or Mr. Ho’s world travels. All tease, no meat, irregularly irregular positive reinforcement (the most addictive kind, just like gambling). When you click on the campaign Facebook links for Mr. Ho, you get https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/660315531/ which no longer exists. Same for https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/110875392609110/ . There is a twitter (https://twitter.com/geekbylhlabs) who’s last meaningful post was from Feb of 2017. Talk about a ruined reputation. 


(note: extra part deleted for encouragement of harassment towards journalists and LHL employees and associates)

(second note: second deletion. discussion of legal action towards LHL is not permitted on this site)


@Jeff sending pictures of the defects to backers and asking if they want that chassis would be a logistical nightmare and eat up lots of time. We would have to probably just have them sign a waiver and send them the best we can. Maybe they could fill out a checklist of acceptable defects, then we choose from that pool. 


@Cheung let me get back to you on that. 

Jarek, it make sense.

Well as an example, what I saw on the pictures you gave us is within my acceptance criteria.

In response to the inquiries about my earlier post - My point was that LH has implied refunds are somehow against IGG policy. That's BS. The IGG terms of service (which LH violates with impunity) expressly state that refunds are a viable option when the campaign can't or won't meet their obligations. 


I understand that backing through IGG is different from buying retail. I understand the risk of losing everything. However, outright fraud is a whole different story. When LH demanded shipping costs a year ago, implying product was ready to ship when in actuality nothing would be produced for over a year, that was theft. 


It sounds from the posts that many backers are satisfied to continue waiting and accept B-stock merchandise to expedite the process. It should be easy for LH to provide a full refund to a single backer. I want my money refunded and the only thing stopping that is the same lack of morals that prompted LH to defraud me of the shipping expense.



2 people like this
Dan I will be surprised if you get an answer to that post

Just saw the following from "stucklimo" at the Head-Fi forum:

"Hi everyone, just wanted to verify: We've gotten reports of Chinese retailers selling our gear. We only have two (2) retailers in China that are authorized LH retailers: Yosemite in Shen Zhen and TYLD in Beijing. If you're in China and you're not in one of these locations, you're in an non-authorized retailer who is selling gear they did not obtain from us. 


Thanks!"
So what I'm getting from that quote is that someone is capable of manufacturing and supplying the ViDac, but that someone isn't LH labs? 

That isn't the chassis we invested in.  If you can't make tube models, just make more SS models (which supposedly shipped 124 of) and upgrade the accessory modules to equal the value.  The Chassis problem was supposedly fixed in July, so it took LH 6 months to figure out the vendor could not make them?



.


I'm still exploring the idea of offering "B Stock" chassis to backers with Larry. So, if you're interested in a "B Stock" chassis, I need to know the level of interest from backers. Submit a ticket to Freshdesk with the title of "Vi Dac B Stock" and I'll put everyone into a special folder that I can present to Larry. I have no guarantees we will actually offer it (still exploring #s and logistics) but the more people who show in interest, the more "likely" it is. 

Include your name and email address used on the order/current email address and the order/invoice # so I can get all of your information. Thanks!

@ Customer Service - I am interested in making a deal for a "B" stock chassis if there is a long wait till I can receive an unblemished one - is there any way to determine my position in queue and when I might expect delivery?  That way I can plan accordingly.  Bet other backers are curious to know their positions as well.


@Conrad there is no way to tell anyone's position in line, because of the manner in which the units are made. Sorry. 


I'm not sure there would even be a way to tell when you could get an unblemished one if you took a temporary one. I'd have to check on this. 

@Customer Service you refer to manner in which the units are made.  Can you share what that manner is? Hopefully, this can include the order in which they are being produced and fulfilled such as order date, DAC type (SS, Tube, Infinity or SE) or some other definition.  Hopefully there is some logic applied to the manner. That way we have an idea of where we might fit in the fulfillment process without having to define a date or date range.

 

@Jarek,

Ticket sent to get into the B stock listing

@Gery from what I understand, even Larry doesn't know. It's all done by batches at the factory. Some days they may do one type, some days they may do another. 


Not a very revealing answer, but that's what I know. 

Thanks Jarek, appreciate the honest response! 

That no one seems to know how the batches are being processed, or can even point to someone who does, speaks volumes and explains much.  All I'll say is that someone at LHL needs to step up, take control and drive the bus. 

I'm going to drop off the radar for a while.

 

So is everything being done in China when they get paid?

Hi everyone, we keep having questions over retailers getting IGG merchandise before backers. So this is our official answer (which we've actually talked about before): 


1. Sales to dealers are different than IGG. They have different items, different channels of payments. IGG merchandise does NOT go to dealers. The only two that shipped at the same time were Vi Dac SS (which most or all should have already received) and the Pulse DACs. Some dealers were also IGG backers, we have some special new dealer's perk in the campaign, and we stated that before.

2. We never stated to anyone, anywhere, that all backers would receive all merchandise before dealers. That's not how the audio business runs. We lost loads of money on IGG merchandise, so we have to make it up elsewhere. This has been discussed before. We won't stop shipping to backers just because some dealer thinks Indiegogo backers got too good of a price. Also we won't stop dealers to sell our products. Pulse totally got to dealers plus Amazon less than 30. And we totally ship 2000+ Pulse DAC to backers. See the ratio?

3. The IGG Source is different than the retail version of Source, the retail version is "Source Pro" which is being sold through retailers. The retailers DO NOT WANT IGG merchandise, they want to separate too. They want their own, special, unique version.For example, one of dealers request the 256G SSD capacity with NO HDMI output and get rid of all the special jitter removal stuff. And they plan to sell dedicatedly. They want absolutely nothing to do with the IGG market. Frankly, we got lots of complaints from dealers that IGG price is conflicting with their channel.

For anyone else who is concerned about dealership sales:

4. Yosemite (our dealer in Shenzhen, China) has 0 Vi Tube. We are sending the incredibly vast majority of Vi Tube to backers. Maybe a few to a few dealers. We need to stay in business. We're losing money on IGG. We will continue to operate as a business so we can continue to bring in funds to build IGG gear so our backers can receive their merchandise. At no point did we state we would never ship or sell to anyone but backers. To anyone who was confused or not understanding how this company/business stays afloat and pays our bills, we apologize for the confusion. We will not apologize for staying in business to bring backers the gear they expect. It takes time, research, money, and resources. We are working incredibly hard on getting you what you paid for. We are thankful for the support of our backers who appreciate our products and the extra perks they received.



If anyone can buy, for example, the Indiegogo Source from any place in the world, including Yosemite in the same price he got from IGG, in the same form he got, we'll eat our $#*t. 

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