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Vi DAC Chatter

Hi everyone, this is the first thread for the Vi DAC. Please post thoughts, comments, questions, screenshots, etc. in here. We will be attending to these forums now instead of the IGG pages due to ease of use for both LHL and backers. 


Same rules as before: professional-esque discussion over the campaign and LHL is welcome. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and will be deleted. Profanity: try to keep it PG, please. 


There is no "quote" function on the forum but I am working with Freshdesk support to see if there is a workaround. But this will be infinitely better than the old system at IGG where there was no ability to edit posts, a character count, no way to post screens, etc. 


We look forward to hearing from you around the forums! 


- Jarek


Best Answer

I posted this 2 months ago but it apparently didn't go through so I am posting again...


I think that is going to be hard to do Robert. Consider the following taken directly off Indiegogo:

 

                                                                        Funds collected

Campaign                         Backers               when campaign closed                 % Funded

 

Geek Wave:                     ~9600                  $1,665,254                                     3478% on July 13, 2014

Geek Wave #2:                ~800                    $190,000                                         148% of $128,000

Geek Pulse DAC:             ~13,400              $3,001,353                                     3089% on Dec 28, 2013

Geek Pulse #2:                 ~550                    $103,527                                         20705% of $500 fixed goal

Pulse Analog:                   ~260                    $93,966                                           1649% on Oct 1, 2015

Vi DAC:                              ~1150                  $283,406                                        2852% on March 16, 2015

 

Total Reported funds contributed: $5,629,225

 

These numbers may not reflect all of the perks, direct invoices, etc. which may have taken place after the campaigns closed. Even with overlap, that’s 20,000+ backers from all over the world. I have a hard time believing that ~20k backers contributing ~5.6M are going to let all this just go. 

 

I agree with you about these products becoming “legacy”. I am fortunate in that I have the ability to move on (and I have, substituting new products which I have purchased to take the place of these “potential products” which may or may not ever show up). But while you and I may be able to tap out and take the loss as a poor investment opportunity, hard to imagine that many others will feel the same…again, nor should they.

 

I think if the communication were better and consisted of something other than teases like the September 5, 2018 update (noted above by John Siegel):

 

“We have the new Vi chassis design ready…we will post the photo of the new chassis once we receive it. It should be in three weeks.”

 

Promise unkept. Rather than update again on Sept 26 letting people know what’s happening, nothing happens.

 

In the last year regarding just Vi DAC, there have been 7 updates, and many updates address the chassis or Mr. Ho’s world travels. All tease, no meat, irregularly irregular positive reinforcement (the most addictive kind, just like gambling). When you click on the campaign Facebook links for Mr. Ho, you get https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/660315531/ which no longer exists. Same for https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/110875392609110/ . There is a twitter (https://twitter.com/geekbylhlabs) who’s last meaningful post was from Feb of 2017. Talk about a ruined reputation. 


(note: extra part deleted for encouragement of harassment towards journalists and LHL employees and associates)

(second note: second deletion. discussion of legal action towards LHL is not permitted on this site)


I do understand refund will never happen.

Instead could it be possible to change our orders to another version of the products we ordered (Vi DAC for eg) to make it more simple to LHL factory and logistics?

So we can get delivery.


I realize that the Vi series, Source and Wave got too complex, with too many options, too many variations. The idea of the CCX, clock options ... where fantastic on paper, but too complicated to make it happen. It is like getting a standard unit and get it tweaked on order but still in an industrial procces. Brilliant idea, but IMO not faisable business wise.


I would not mind downsize my Vi DAC tube for SS Infinity or SE and forget the CCX.

As far as the down price is close enough to my cumulated opions.

Same with my Source and Wave, aiming at versions that can be delivered ASAP even if that means some spec changes.


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From the first two paragraphs in the IGG terms of service:

... Campaign Owners are legally bound to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors (including delivering any Perks). This commitment includes shipping Perks to Indiegogo Contributors before fulfilling any orders received after the Campaign has ended (you blew this one on the GO). ...

Campaign Owners will respond promptly and truthfully (you haven't done too well on this one either) to all questions posed to them by Indiegogo or any Contributor. Campaign Owners will provide substantive and quality updates at least once a month (another miss) to their Contributors. Failure to do so may result in punitive actions taken on the Campaign. If any Campaign Owner is unable to fulfill any of its commitments to Contributors (including delivering any Perks), the Campaign Owner will work with the Contributors to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, which may include refunding their Contributions.


Considering your blatant violation of multiple terms of service I don't want to hear an excuse about IGG rules that you ignore when it suits you. Please note the section highlighted in green. Three years on I say the campaign is unable to fulfill it's commitment to me.  The solution that will satisfy me is a complete refund. It's been over a year since you declared shipping was imminent and charged me shipping. Either ship me a Vidac now or send me a check.

 


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2. "We never stated to anyone, anywhere, that all backers would receive all merchandise before dealers."


Wrong. Just...wrong. Go back and look at Gavin Fish's statements when he was still the mouthpiece for LH. He emphasized that one of the main benefits to backing LH was that backers get this product before anyone else. I haven't saved any direct quotes but I'm sure someone has.  


1. "IGG merchandise does NOT go to dealers". 


No, of course not. Not if you define IGG merchandise as merchandise that ships to IGG backers. The problem is that you are procuring parts for, building, and shipping retail merchandise using the same funds  and production resources that COULD be producing and shipping IGG products. In other words, given a choice you produce for retail first, IGG last. 


4. "We're losing money on IGG."


You have collected approximately $4k dollars from me and held it for over three years. Your MSRP for this stuff is about $7k. I've read margins in the audio business are typically 50%. If you can't make money selling a $7k MSRP device for $4k you're doing it wrong. 


HOWEVER, I'm willing to take you at your word on this one. Please prove your point. I've been regularly requesting a full refund. If you're actually losing money on IGG I'm willing to let you lose less. Based on your recent post the best business decision you could make is to refund my money. 


So, which is it?






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In response to the inquiries about my earlier post - My point was that LH has implied refunds are somehow against IGG policy. That's BS. The IGG terms of service (which LH violates with impunity) expressly state that refunds are a viable option when the campaign can't or won't meet their obligations. 


I understand that backing through IGG is different from buying retail. I understand the risk of losing everything. However, outright fraud is a whole different story. When LH demanded shipping costs a year ago, implying product was ready to ship when in actuality nothing would be produced for over a year, that was theft. 


It sounds from the posts that many backers are satisfied to continue waiting and accept B-stock merchandise to expedite the process. It should be easy for LH to provide a full refund to a single backer. I want my money refunded and the only thing stopping that is the same lack of morals that prompted LH to defraud me of the shipping expense.



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Hi Jarek, I too would like to request an update on the the Vi DAC Tube. It's good to hear some real progress is being made on the Wave, but with complete silence on the Vi DAC it makes one wonder whether anything is happening.

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This is the Vi Dac thread, not the Source thread, but the symptoms are the same...little to no progress!  All I want is what I paid for, no more, no less, then I'll quietly fade into t he sunset.  Four years has been more than sufficient time.


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I thought the new case design was worked out months ago? I do not mind how the products will look like. I am only concerned about getting them the fastest way possible.

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@Customer Service


Hi, any news on the ViDAC chassis? 


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We've been on the new forum over a month now and I have not seen any backer report receiving a Vidac. Someone posted earlier that they have inside knowledge of continuing efforts to produce Vidac product. That may be, but it doesn't answer the question of who's receiving new production. In the absence of any deliveries to backers and mention of "positive response" in Asia I suspect any actual production is going straight to retail sales and IGG backers will continue to be stiffed.
Putting money into a crowdfunding campaign is risky because the product may never be developed and then we lose our money. This was a risk I signed up for. Losing my money because the manufacturer decides he'd prefer to sell it to someone else for more cash is NOT a risk I signed up for. It is time for LH to begin providing refunds to IGG backers. I want my money back.

 


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Considering you constantly tell us you don't know anything until management tells you, how do you know? You believe what LH tells you? I've got years of experience that tells me their word is no good.
My answer remains the same, I want a full refund. 

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Totally agree with Dan.  please full refund to all backers ASAP.

It is because:

1. no timeline for all products delivery;

2. the Vi Tube dac still have some problems until now, Larry still can not fix it, even you received the Vi Dac, it can not work properly;

3. no CCX production and no timeline for delivery

4. the CS is rubbish, can not answer the questions;

5. wasting our time and money for the undeliverable products.


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Yes some sort of solution would be great. One thing a dac chassis that had some machinery flaws in it would not worrie me if I was sent photos of it first. Second it was hard for the machine shop to drill two holes, (really) Jarek ask Larry for some options to put forward to us some options to solve this please.

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Jarek 24 days ago you sent info on ideas about vidac from the backers to Larry. Does he care to have some answers or feed back? I for one don’t enjoy his ignoring of the backers. Some comments please?

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I guess that is you that has chimed in Jarek. How about stop defending things and come up with answers. Pleanty of questions here of and the not okayed update that never happened. Think well over time for update?

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Jarek are you in touch with Larry you said 25 days ago you would put ideas as discussed here to him. Has he not made any comment to you regarding this?

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